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In "Doves" by Ursula Hegi, Hegi tells a short story of a woman who is feeling depressed, so she buys two gray doves. The doves don't react to her unless she puts on country music, which she was never really fond of. She eventually started listening to the music as the doves did, learning the lyrics. I know that there is some sort of symbolism, but I don't really understand it. I can't figure it out. In "Symphony" by Pam Houston, Houston tells a story about a woman who enjoys being with men sexually, but believes she will never be allowed to fall in love because she is interested and involved in a lot of them. So she just enjoys all the men as a symphony of musical instruments. In "Girl" by Jamaica Kincaid, Kincaid tells a story that didn't really feel like a story to me. It felt more like rules and advice to follow to make sure that the girl she is talking to in order to become the perfect woman for a man. It was a bit sexist, but not in a bad way. It shows how girls from a different culture are raised and how their mother(possibly) teaches and corrects them.
ReplyDeleteSidney Carranco
Ursula Hegi “Doves” story was about a depressed woman buying doves to make herself feel better I enjoyed how she did not like the country music but slowly grew to tolerate it. In the end she find out that the opera music she enjoys the most was the exact same thing the country song was singing “for the first time it comes to her it, too, is about lost love and broken hearts” (160) I know that there was probably a deeper meaning to this but I did like that part of the story. Pam Houston “Symphony” was a bit different it was more of a conquest of men she has been with in her life but not falling in love with them just wants to be with them whenever she can. Jamaica Kincaid “girl” was more of a way of living as if she is giving advice to some other girl on growing up which was annoying it was just an on going list on how things are done and in the end it circles back to making bread. It was just a weird thing to read. I really did not know what to make of it.
ReplyDeleteAndi Rubalcava
In Ursela Hegi's "Doves" I learned about a woman who buys two gray doves on a sad day. It seems to be an impulse buy as she may think the doves could replace her sadness I want to understand more behind this story like why it was necessary to know about what happens at her job at K-Mart. I feel as though there is a meaning that I'm trying to figure out. I'd also like to know more about why she says she "becomes the woman in all the songs(from the country songs she listens to with her doves)(160)." Could this be a foreshadow? In Pam Houston's "Symphony" I got to experience what it's like to be woman who enjoys being sexually involved with a number of men (small number). In my eyes I see her symphony epiphany when waking up as in she likes being able to play with these men free willingly with no strings attached. She has felt so close to love but never seems to allow herself to fall into it for the sake of her own being. In Jamaica Kincaid's "Girl" I understood it as the rules we normally would see (sometimes still see today) girls are expected to follow or are taught to follow. I like how it is all in one paragraph kind of to show it as one whole thought or being said all in one breath in a sense. I especially love the break in italics when the girl finally speaks up just to be questioned why she even had that question in the first place.
ReplyDeleteFaith Ortiz
In “Doves” by Ursula Hegi, I noticed the strong theme that is being presented here; love. The type of doves she buys are Ring Neck Doves which are a light gray color and usually are known as “mourning” doves. It seems to me that the narrator has either lost a loved one, by death or separation, and she is mourning that loss of love. Ring Neck Doves symbolize life, hope, renewal and peace; I’m thinking that the narrator is trying to fill that emptiness she has with the two doves, which they do because you can see throughout the story how she is distracted by caring for them and talking to them.
ReplyDeleteIn “Symphony” by Pam Houston, again, I noticed the theme here and it seems to be love as well; but not the type of love that is illustrated in “Doves”. The narrator seems to have a lot of relations with a lot of different men. She gives the description of each and goes into detail about some of the men. I think the narrator does this to paint a picture of herself to the reader but at the end she purposely says “I’m afraid of what you might be thinking. That I am a certain kind of person, and that you are the kind of person who knows more about my story than me.” I agree with that because, we don’t know her story at all, we don’t know why she hasn’t chosen to settle down and marry, or maybe why she can’t seem to commit.
In “Girl” by Jamaica Kincaid, I really enjoyed the structure of the story. I liked how it went on and on, listing things. The title fits perfectly with the story. As a girl, we are told how to dress, how to walk, how to talk, how to eat, how to sleep, how to do this and that; the list goes on and on while being raised as a girl. I can relate to this story entirely.
Ilene Guevara
“Doves” by Ursula Hegi is about a woman who is fascinated by doves, and how this changed her perspective. Although it seems, from the title, that this story will be based on her encounter with getting doves, we see her stroll the streets and even go to the opera. We watch as she grows an appreciation for country music because her doves like it. It becomes apparent as well that she has become more attuned with love songs, and their meaning as she finds them even in her own opera music. She begins to further understand it, being consumed by it, leading to her statement at the end becoming the woman who breaks hearts. Pan Houston’s “Symphony” is about a woman who is now very attractive who tells us about a few men who she considers to matter. She later contradicts and reveals she is she cannot be with only one of them, addressing herself as a person we make judgments about. Jamaica Kincaid’s “Girl” is a series of commands which seems to be a mother scolding her daughter about everyday tasks. The only repetitive notion mentioned throughout is how the mother says “prevent yourself from looking like a slut”. This says something about parenting and the effect she may be having on her child, showing her she can’t truly be free being perceived a certain way.
ReplyDeleteAlyssa Campos
All three short stories are of women in differing circumstances, but with the same issue: the art of femininity. All three leading characters are channeling what it is like to be a woman during loss, newfound confidence, and the pressure of being told who to be. I resonate with these women because we are all one in the same. Society has a strict moral code for what a female should be and how she should act, and these authors are blatantly pointing out the fundamental flaws that women hold on to as they try to navigate the uncertainty of life.
ReplyDeleteUrsula Hegi uses her character in “Doves” to show just how lonely it is for a woman who just experienced a loss or a breakup. Her only source of light comes from these doves that she buys, and for a short time they are her only company. When she comes home from work they are there and they help navigate her mood through listening to a radio station she would have never listened to if it were not for her two new doves. In a way, they are her only friends. Even though she tries to go back to the old version of herself by attending the opera she is left feeling invisible still, and decides to go to a bar where she meets a man and he makes her feel like the type of woman that men sing about in the new songs she has been listening to. Her confidence is back.
Which is similar to Pan Houston’s, “Symphony,” because the main character’s opening line is, “I lost fifteen pounds and the men want me again” (161). Which shows just how much influence weight has on self-confidence and the way people, especially men, perceive you in a romantic type of way. She goes on to talk about the four men that have influenced her current state of mind, all four varying in looks and styles, but having her is their one thing in common. I thought it was interesting when says that she is afraid of what the audience thinks about her because she lives a certain lifestyle but she knows who she is deep down, and that our opinion of her is hearsay. She loves the confidence that this new lifestyle has brought her and she deserves to have all the unattached fun she wants. Houston uses her character to speak of the restriction held onto women who showcase their sexual desires without hesitance, and she ends the story without fear but triumph, the main character literally tells the audience, “come here, he’s in my air. You can smell him.” Which I find to be incredibly amazing and bold. She’s learned that she is her first priority and other people’s opinions are beneath her.
The overwhelming emotion behind Jamaica Kincaid’s story, “Girl,” is one that every female knows and understands. From birth to death we are told what to do and how to do it because the perception of what a female needs to look like is strict. I enjoyed this story so much that I read it aloud a few times playing with speed because of the abundant use of semi-colons. I thought it was smart how Kincaid uses all types of demands as a way of showcasing the nagging orders she and other ladies has been told throughout their lives. Growing up as a girl involves hearing all of these rules and more; it’s as if there is this level of hidden perfection people place on young women and it should be expected to be followed. For example, the italics where the character is trying to get a word in and state her frustrations or questions she is immediately shut down and given more things to do. It’s as if a woman’s voice and opinion do not matter, but instead only what she can bring to the table, literally and figuratively.
Kimberlee Salas
I really, really loved the reading “Girl” on pgs 163-164 by Jamaica Kincaid. I have not only thought exactly like this, in a string of do’s and don’ts, but also, I have written run-ons, thoughts about chores to do, worries I have, events of the day, etc. The three mentions of the “slut” she doesn’t want to become, give the whole story a cohesiveness, with the last sentence being the fourth allusion to this alternative “bad girl,” naming her a woman this time. This picture of who not to be, is the central focus of the narrator, and whenever you aim at something with your mind, you are sure to hit it – which is why you shouldn’t focus on what NOT to do. It’s very relatable.
ReplyDeleteI found myself confused initially by “Doves” by Ursula Hegi, even after a second read. I found it beautiful in its muted and pale colors, and very gentle. After reading it again, I see there is a lot going on message-wise, with doves (I did research!) symbolizing peace, love, gentleness, the communication between two (spiritual) worlds, maternity, femininity, and prophecy. The gray doves are likely mourning doves, and they lay 2 eggs, which are symbols of creative and feminine energies. Home and family, hope and new beginnings are also implied. La Traviata is an opera about a fallen woman who goes astray, and her dilemma is if she could ever really be loved by a man, when she desires to be “sempre libera.” (http://www.shamanicjourney.com/dove-pigeon-power-animal-symbol-of-peace-love-maternity-gentleness-spirit-messenger; https://www.britannica.com/topic/La-traviata)
“Symphony” by Pam Houston evokes sympathy for a woman who has moved between different men (even though she’s in love with love, by her own admission, mid. of page 161). The very ending of the narrative, pgs 162-163 says, “I could love any of them, in an instant and with every piece of my heart, but none of them nor the world will allow it, and so I move between them…” She is held by back noncommittal men, and the loves of the world that hold the men back. They are wolves (as per her first dream). It’s a perspective I’ve never really thought about in this light: that there could be competing love interests of men, that are not necessarily other women. The loss of innocence indicated by her dream about being a girl was also very powerful: how she couldn’t embrace her younger self in the dream while she was, in reality, embracing another man…
Natalie Roeglin
In the story, "Doves" a woman is having a bad day and purchases two gray doves. She buys these doves to eliminate her sadness, but instead comes to understand something a little better. I believe that the color of these doves symbolize how she feels and since doves are associated with weddings perhaps she is coming out of relationship. I liked that towards the end the country music she didn't enjoy ended up being similar to the opera music that she enjoyed. In the second story, "Symphony" I actual felt that a lot of women can relate to this because I know some people that are scared of falling in love. These men that this lady has been with have only been used to satisfy her needs, and none of them were based on love. To me I see that this woman is scared of going into a real relationship, so she tells herself that she is fine without love and prefers no strings attached. This woman may be using these men as a coping mechanism because of something that happened in her past that has made her afraid of love and commitment. In the last story, "Girl" I feel that this relates to old gender roles and how a woman or a girl is supposed to act. It mentions many rules to follow and the preferred method of doing something. I think that this piece shows how women are given some criteria to meet by society. It compares boys being able to squat and play with marbles while the girls can't because " you are not a boy." This I thought was powerful because as a little girl you want to engage in fun and already teaching a child at a young age to conform to the gender rules of society by not playing with marbles for example is common.
ReplyDeleteLianna Andrade
The first story “Doves” was the easiest to read from the three. The ideas flowed from paragraph to paragraph and the chronology was not confusing. The main character of the story, Francine, seemed like she was a hopeless romantic that led a very boring life until the day she bought herself some doves. She then started to listen to country music because the birds also liked to listen to it and therefore she ended up going out to a country club and dancing with men. At the end of it all, she ended up being the lonely woman that all those country songs talk about. The second story called “Symphony” was a bit more entertaining to me because the author describes the main characters feelings more detailed and I got the main idea of how she felt about every person. The main character seems to be promiscuous since she talks about being with four different guys. I had a hard time reading through the whole story called “Girl”. The structure of the story and the language used made it hard to read and the ideas seemed to be getting cut off almost like sentence fragments. It made it hard to picture in my mind what the author was trying to convey. I think that the story could have had more impact to the reader if the sentences were complete and if the ideas were separated into paragraphs.
ReplyDeleteFrancisco Rosales
I really enjoyed the story the dove it had a lot of imagery and I was able to really imagine the story very well. When Hegi describes the birds and how all their feathers looked really brought back an old memory to me of feeding my grandmas birds. They're so peacfull and easy to talk too. When the woman talks to her birds as if they were humans was honestly cute because he was technically alone without any other human present. Towards the end of the story she talks about being on the dance floor and she relates herself to the country song of being the women men sing about who break their hearts and that honestly confused me a bit becuase I really thought she wanted a man. I really didn't comprehend the story symphony i didn't understand what Houston was trying to say so I can say i didn't enjoy it. In the story "girl" I felt a little mad the way Kinacaid felt how a women needed to be with cleaning and behaving and if she did anything she was considered a "slut" becuase he had "trained" her properly to not act a certaing way.
ReplyDelete-krystdamayne Guerrero
All three stories bear a theme of traditional societal values imposed on the individual; it is a struggle of man versus society, in which case all three portray how society imposes its values onto the females in question and how society shapes these women by their perception and self-image. We see such in “Doves,” where a woman purchases two Ring Neck Doves, a symbolic representation of grief and loss; it can be interpreted that the woman has lost one dear to her, perhaps a boyfriend or even her husband, which would make her a widow. Personally, I saw her as someone who is ashamed of her status and finds herself unworthy of interacting with other men. The reference to both opera and country is a metaphorical transition between a cultivated woman, as opera has been for several centuries, into a blossoming woman, as country is a genre riddled with down-to-earth woes that address individual concerns blended in one’s environment.
ReplyDelete“Symphony.” A narrative focused on the individual wants of a woman, the woman, by far and large, befits the definition of “slut,” and even she herself as expressed insecurities on this label being true for her. In a society in which a woman is associated with delicacy and innocence, a woman’s desires for a lustful encounter is generally frowned upon; the woman is aware of such, and she is aware that such behavior is thoroughly liberating for herself, for the defiance in such values and expectations is a lust of its own.
“Girl” is a list of ideas and tasks - it is a mystery if the narrator is the girl or the one speaking to the girl. What I found rather curious what that this entire story is just one sentence sprawled about in semicolons; there is probably a purpose for this, I imagine. My line of thought is the semicolons better give a sense to thought process, and perhaps this isn’t an active narration, but more along the lines of a mantra of sorts instilled in one’s mind for everyday life. This narrative is more than just an insight into one’s everyday life as a girl of Mexican culture, it is a cultivation of one into tradition and thought.
- Gary Tolar
In the story doves by Ursula Hegi was interesting to read, it did have somewhat of a happy ending but in a way that let us know she was finally given a change in her life just as the doves brought her. She made friends with her doves in a weird way by simply enjoying the music they did as well. In the story Symphony by Pan Houston is extremely descriptive and I enjoyed a piece of her story that really opened my eyes on page 162, she states “it is a savage moment, rangy and impatient, lazy too, and without a bit of self-consciousness.” Where Jonathon is being explained, I find it quite interesting how there’s factual information in this quote, how the lack of self-control and discomfort wasn’t shown. How we decided to scratch out heads in public and decide not to avoid giving out the assumption that we are dirty. This quote from her story was definitely something spoken about that we all think subconsciously in our daily lives whether it’d be putting yourself first through a door or shouting at some kind of news. In the story Girl by Jamaica Kincaid I felt very intense and demanding, I think we all can assume this is how girls are being raised, not all in one reading, but throughout our lives we look at people and other women and mothers and examples to becoming the perfect women, wife, daughter. And I think that’s what girl does, it opens our eyes to see we are learning this stuff but discreetly and less intense.
ReplyDeleteStephanie Ruiz
I feel like all three stories were a mystery to me not in the sense of “I don’t understand” but in a way that made me want to read and reread them. I normally don’t find connections within the stories/essays, or I don’t find them easier that is, but the connections between the women was something that stood out to me immediately. ‘Doves’ by Ursula Hegi seems very romantic to me. Francine reminds me a lot of the doves that she brings home in the beginning of the story: small and gray. She doesn’t seem like the type to stand out too much but she has a romantic way of thinking, something that didn’t really stand out to me until near the end. ‘Symphony’ by Pam Houston confused me only because I had to keep going back and forth to remember which guy was who. A line that stuck to me was, “I could love any one of them, in an instant and with every piece of my heart, but none of them nor the world will allow it, and so I move between them…”. I feel like this woman wants to be in love but because the men seem to only want her in the physical sense, she is forced to hop from one to another, taking her fill of love how she can. ‘Girl’ by Jamaica Kincaid seemed very robotic to me, but I’m assuming it’s because of how it’s structured. I loved it honestly. There were certain sections where I thought, “Oh hah this sounds like my mom/nana.”, and it sudden became so familiar. This feels very old school in it’s contents, like this was something that was taught over and over to girls. Like I said earlier though, parts of this stories does hold some nostalgia for me and I’m sure some other women will agree. Some parts are so ridiculously outdated and yet there are sections that still get taught to girls today.
ReplyDeleteTeresa Villarreal
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ReplyDelete“Doves” is about a rather lonely and quiet women, who becomes fascinated by small grey doves. Further in the story, she finds herself at a country bar dancing with a man, and imagines herself to be the heartbreaker that the songs describe. I liked how the author plays with the symbolism of grey doves. She purchases them because she believes that they won’t be too needy, then later discovers that they actually do yearn for attention, just a she learns about her own need for regard. “Symphony” is about a woman who is describing her lovers. She refuses to discuss the one man whom she almost fell in love with, then goes back to discussing how the universe will never truly let her fall in love with any man. “Girl” describes guidelines from a mother to a daughter, showing her how to properly behave and adapt to societal norms. I enjoyed how she goes into great depths when describing her past, and current lovers. To me, this exemplifies just how critical and observant the woman was of them. I believe that a common theme among the three stories, was love. Though the three present different ways the topic of love was incorporated, they each shared an experience with the idea.
ReplyDeleteValerie Jackson
(Submitted on wrong discussion board!)